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I just received a phone report from one of our guys (Robin Brandl) at the Microsoft Management Summit
in Las Vegas.
Any time you shout a bold claim out in the market, you run the risk of getting it thrown back at you. It could happen to any technology company. This time, the bold claim happens to come from Provision Networks. I am not disputing that Provision Networks has a capable VDI solution to offer that works with Microsoft's Hyper-V. But this is a case where being bold some times backfires.
David Kim on our Citrix-Microsoft Relationship team worked closely with Microsoft to get a demo of Citrix XenDesktop built inside the Microsoft booth on the exhibit floor at MMS. This demo shows Citrix XenDesktop working with Hyper-V and the beta of System Center Virtual Machine Manager (SC VMM).
While putting the finishing touches on the demo, the team noticed Provision Networks setting up their own booth and demo nearby. There were signs displayed in the Provision Networks booth that said "VDI for Hyper-V: Only from Quest". Not only that, but Provision Networks was giving away dozens of green t-shirts and buttons that said the same thing.
The Citrix team at the conference got a big laugh the next day while attending the Day 2 Keynote by Brad Anderson, General Manager of the Management and Services Division at Microsoft. (You can watch the keynotes from the Microsoft Management Summit here).
Brad Anderson's keynote included a discussion about virtual desktops. The only VDI solution highlighted in the live virtual desktop demo was Citrix XenDesktop, including the integration the Hyper V and SC VMM. No mention at all of Provision Networks.
(You can read Tim Mangan's great post on BrianMadden.com about each day's keynote at MMS.)
You do not just have to take my obviously biased word for it (Citrix does pay me to work here, believe it or not). There is video proof of this. If you go the to the Day 2 Keynote video, you can watch the live demo that Brad Anderson and Edwin Yuen (Sr. Product Manager for System Center) did at about the 17 minute mark. If you watch the entire 1 hour and ten minute keynote, you will hear Brad Anderson mention Citrix and the "strong partnership" with Microsoft multiple times. Somehow the only "VDI solution that works with Hyper V" was left out.
After the keynote, a Citrix customer came up to Robin and asked if Citrix had t-shirts that said "The Only VDI Solution That Works at a Microsoft Keynote..."
Some may not find this as funny as I did. I don't expect any of our friends at Provision Networks are laughing about it. I am sure they will recover and continue to go after the VDI market aggressively, as will Citrix.
Comments (36)
May 01, 2008
Gus Pinto says:
This is just too AWESOME! LOLThis is just too AWESOME!
LOL
May 01, 2008
Anonymous says:
That totally rocks. Glad to see a some humor and willingness to call someone ou...That totally rocks.
Glad to see a some humor and willingness to call someone out on their BS on the "Official" Citrix blog.
May 02, 2008
Michael Keen says:
LMAO....now that ranks right up there with Bill Gates' blue screen of death epis...LMAO....now that ranks right up there with Bill Gates' blue screen of death episode during a presentation to analysts a few years ago!!!!!!
Thanks for sharing Barry!!!
Cheers
Michael
May 02, 2008
Barry Flanagan says:
Glad you got a chuckle out of it too, Michael.Glad you got a chuckle out of it too, Michael.
May 02, 2008
Anonymous says:
Did you pick up a shirt at leastDid you pick up a shirt at least
May 02, 2008
Barry Flanagan says:
I am waiting for pictures of the shirt to post on the blog. Hopefully I will hav...I am waiting for pictures of the shirt to post on the blog. Hopefully I will have them by this afternoon.
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Barry, I think Quest Software really meant to say: the only "shipping" VDI...Barry,
I think Quest Software really meant to say: the only "shipping" VDI solution for Hyper-V. On a brighter note, I do want to wholeheartedly congratulate you for winning the "demoware" war and, of course, Brad Anderson's honorable mention; all I saw from you (Citrix) is a couple of PowerShell scripts that you pitifully dub "Hyper-V integration". What I didn't see in your semblance of a VDI product, especially in the way of Hyper-V integration, are:
- Power management (power-on/power-off/suspend/resume of virtual machines).
- Green computing (automatically power on and off machines shortly before and after the start and conclusion of a work day.
- Power management of physical desktops via ACPI.
- An integrated management framework consolidating physical and virtual desktops, as well as terminal servers. Let me have my own LMAO moment here: while you were out evangelizing the Trinity vaporware almost two years ago (a slick time-to-market scheme), Provision Networks was out in the trenches installing their own "Trinity". I got your Trinity right here, ****!!! (i.e., MetaFramer).
EDIT - That is going too far and very unprofessional.
- Provisioning of virtual machines from templates. Hyper-V doesn't have templates. Hmm, I wonder how Quest was able to do it.
- Full-featured Sysprep framework. Hyper-V doesn't have Sysprep support. Hmm, I wonder how Quest was able to do it.
- Management of virtual and physical desktops as "personal terminal servers", offering features like seamless windows and universal print driver, to name a few.
- Desktop group auto-expansion.
- Task automation.
- User profile acceleration.
-Desktop configuration and lockdown.
And this, Barry, is just a modest subset of the features that are available NOW (did I say NOW?), with support for as many as 3 leading hypervisors, soon to be 5.
Let's admit it, Barry. You, like your company, are nothing but a sore loser. Quest / Provision Networks should feel privileged to be on your radar screen (and in your nightmares) on a daily basis. It seems to me that their vision and success are constantly bringing the worst out of you and your colleagues, exposing you for what you really are: sore losers. Provision Networks, this former little company that you kept referring to as an "illegitimate company that you're going to take out of business" is destined to do it to you, and you just can't stand it now that they're part of a 3,500-employee strong company with an impressive line-up of of management and virtualization products!!! How shall I say it, Barry? Quest Software may very well be YOUR blue screen of death!!!
Oh, and one more thing, Barry. I saw a mind-blowing roadmap from Quest Software. What does Citrix have to offer except vaporware, empty promises, near-zero returns on SA investments, an endless ocean of uninspiring three-letter acronyms, and a bunch of talentless engineers-turned-bloggers like yourself?
Sincerely yours,
A former Citrix Reseller, now a Quest Software Partner.
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
I think "Art" needs to get some sand of his ******! EDIT:Please, let's avoid g...I think "Art" needs to get some sand of his ******!
EDIT:Please, let's avoid getting vulgar.
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Kyle: "You know, I learned something today..." I guess when your technolo...Kyle: "You know, I learned something today..."
I guess when your technology can't compete with others you need to use as many insults as you can....
May 03, 2008
Art Johansen says:
Sorry guys but I didn't make the post up there! No need to attribute t...Sorry guys but I didn't make the post up there! No need to attribute that to me. Could it have been you Barry trying to throw some dirt onto Provision?
May 04, 2008
Anonymous says:
I don't recalling hearing anything about provision networks and VDI in any keyno...I don't recalling hearing anything about provision networks and VDI in any keynote at MMS. I could have missed it though. But I did see xendesktop demonstrated on stage by a MS Product Manager and a GM.
A Windows Server Product Manager blogged about it on the virtualization team blog -
"Partners are also building on this infrastructure delivering end to end customer value. While I was speaking in the Interop panel, on the other side of the Las Vegas strip at Microsoft Management Summit, Citrix demoed a version of XenDesktop (their VDI product) running on Hyper-V and SCVMM. I am very excited that, with our Citrix partnership, we can offer a leading end-to-end VDI solution based on the Microsoft Hyper-V infrastructure, with common management for physical and virtual environments alike through the System Center line of products."
http://blogs.technet.com/virtualization/archive/2008/04/30/rationalizing-a-virtual-desktop-architecture.aspx
I searched that entire blog, never found a word about provision or quest. I guess what citrix is doing is good enough for ms. Maybe they are not even aware of what those provision guys are doing? Strange, if the product is so great, why wouldnt MS want to work with them?...
May 03, 2008
Art Johansen says:
Barry, Yes thank you for sharing with us. However it is important to note ...Barry,
Yes thank you for sharing with us. However it is important to note that while Citrix was mentioned in the keynote, Provision's claims are 100% correct, since they actually have a shipping product and have had a real VDI solution for more than two years now. XenDesktop if I'm not mistaken is still in beta (ie not quite vaporware but still not shipping) and by most comparisons I've seen, it is pretty basic as a connection broker compared to Provision's. I'm sure Provision is not concerned, while they're racking up customers and innovating with new solutions, you're blogging. Most of all, I can guess that they're happy about your blog, since what you've done, for the first time in Citrix's history, is to acknowledge a competitor. WOW! That's true, Citrix has never acknowledged the mere existence of a competitor; you've just acknowledged Provision Networks as your competitor. And they also seem quite nimbler having delivered a real product to market before you do.
Instead of making you wait, I obtained a picture of the shirt for you, courtesy of our friends at Provision Networks. It seems the mass of green t-shirts was quite happy about Provision Networks and must have gotten under your skin.
http://www.provisionnetworks.com/events/mms2.jpg
So hooray for Provision Networks and kudos for their innovation and for giving us real alternatives.
Art Johansen
A former Citrix customer and current Provision Networks customer
May 02, 2008
Barry Flanagan says:
Wow. "Art" is so passionate about Provision Networks he had to post it twice. Pa...Wow. "Art" is so passionate about Provision Networks he had to post it twice. Passionate, and just a bit touchy. He even got personal (several times). He must really, really like that t shirt.
Despite the comments of "Art", XenDesktop is still the "only VDI solution that works in a Microsoft keynote". The truth really does hurt, it seems.
Lighten up, Francis.
May 02, 2008
Art Johansen says:
Nothing personal. Just keeping it real without the smoke and mirrors. Ar...Nothing personal. Just keeping it real without the smoke and mirrors.
Art
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Hey art, before you posted that picture on your website, you should have figured...Hey art, before you posted that picture on your website, you should have figured out how to use focus.
May 03, 2008
Rick Mack says:
Hi Barry, I remember a conference years ago where senior Microsoft and Citrix m...Hi Barry,
I remember a conference years ago where senior Microsoft and Citrix managers were on the stage together. Someone asked the Citrix guy how he felt about Citrix' relationship with Microsoft, and he answered that it was like two guys competing in Kendo, the Japanese martial art. Except there was a difference. Citrix was this little 5 foot guy waving a broomstick, and Microsoft was a 20 foot giant waving a telegraph pole. He said that the way you survive in that scenario is to figure out where the big guy is going to hit and make sure you're not there.
Provision Networks made the decision over 2 years ago that VDI was going to be big and that was someplace Citrix wasn't going. They developed a product for the VDI market and they've been shipping a VDI solution since November 2006. They're continually adding functionality to an existing VDI product, and not forgetting about their terminal services support.
Citrix won't be shipping a real VDI product until May 20, and despite labelling it version 2, it's a whole lot of brand new code. It's got some really cool stuff, or at least enterprise and platinum editions do, but it's still a brand new product.
Without getting personal, here's a challenge for Citrix.
Put together a single management console for all Citrix' virtual desktop products including the existing XenApp terminal server product on Windows Server 2003. Add driverless printing to any combination of client and network printers. Add UPD redirection for VDI and terminal services, and while you're at it add profile management, desktop lockdown and all those bits that have forced Citrix users to buy third party solutions to make their environment work properly.
Then you can laugh.
regards,
Rick
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Rick, I deeply respect your techincal reputation. But c'mon. Do you really real...Rick,
I deeply respect your techincal reputation. But c'mon. Do you really really think Provision's VDI can compete with XenDesktop?
VDI is beyond just showing remote desktops, and Provision doesn't have the ground to compete with the VDI offering Citrix is putting out. You guys don't have Provisioning Server for OS streaming, nor anything even close to ICA + SpeedScreen...
Sorry man. This is a field for big players, and as I see it now, Provision has nothing close (to my knowledge) that can compete with the set of solutions from Citrix.
Like I said, I deeply respect you, just differ opinions.
regards,
Jason
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Jason, I appreciate your comments, and no Quest does not have provis...Jason,
I appreciate your comments, and no Quest does not have provisioning server and it does not have ICA, but they have what looks like a strong second with their extensions to the RDP protocol. But even so, for you to do with Citrix what you can do with Provision you have to buy xendesktop and Presentation Server, not to mention that you are tied to their hypervisor. They have a nice clean demo, but, to duplicate what they show, you need XenDesktop and Provisoning Server. The numbers just keep racking up. The Citrix VDI solution, in my opinion, is the Betamax of the VDI world. May be better, but at what cost?
Kelly
May 03, 2008
Barry Flanagan says:
Kelly, We offer Provisioning Server as part of the XenDesktop Enterprise packag...Kelly,
We offer Provisioning Server as part of the XenDesktop Enterprise package. You have the option of using XenServer, Hyper-V or ESX for the hypervisor.
You do not have to buy "Presentation Server". But since that is our product and there are other 800,000 servers and 70 million users running it worldwide, XenDesktop does integrate well with it.
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Barry, Provisioning Server is included with Xendesktop in the Enterpise ed...Barry,
Provisioning Server is included with Xendesktop in the Enterpise edition, for an extra $100 dollars per CCU. Soon this feature will be builtin to the hypervisor. Ardence is not a typically complex product and is being reproduced by many businesses. And in order to match the features of Quest's VAS you would need XenApp (Presentation Server). Admittedly, many organizations have PS already, but the SA costs alone are more than the full blown Quest VDI/Terminal Services product.
In addition, I personally have not seen the Hyper-v integration as I was unable to attend that keynpote, but even after scouring the web and Citrix partner sites, I can't find anything. And I see nothing in the XenDesktop console, build 6829 (Is there a newer one I need to install?), that allows me to integrate. All I have is two Citrix engineers "demoing" it at an MMS keynote. Give me something a little concrete. Quest's console actually gives you the choice of three seperate hypervisors, Hyper-v included. From what I have "seen" Citrix does not integrate, it's just something I'm being told. And that sounds and looks like a smoke screen. Please educate me where I am wrong.
Kelly
May 03, 2008
Barry Flanagan says:
You did an amazing amount of research between 10:18 am and 12:57 pm. In your fir...You did an amazing amount of research between 10:18 am and 12:57 pm. In your first post you appear to be completely unaware of XenDesktop Editions (and facts like Provisioning Server is included in XenDesktop Enterprise or that "Presentation Server" is not required). Now not only do you have the pricing of every edition down pat but also you also throw out the build numbers of the betas. I am impressed. Clearly a person such as yourself is not going to be swayed by a comment to a blog post.
I do not expect any real customers will be swayed one way or another to make a purchase by comments on a blog. As I stated in another comment, the customers and the market will decide which is the better product.
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Yes, I did do a bunch of research. My spouse was a little miffed that I was "Wor...Yes, I did do a bunch of research. My spouse was a little miffed that I was "Working" on a Saturday when we have guests in.
The build wasn't difficult however, simply clicking help - about is not difficult research. Finding pricing
is, however.
Kelly
May 03, 2008
Barry Flanagan says:
Rick, I have a great deal of respect for you. You are a very bright guy. I appre...Rick, I have a great deal of respect for you. You are a very bright guy. I appreciate you taking the time to comment and refraining from "getting personal".
As I pointed out in the post, I do not dispute that your company has a capable VDI solution. The point was that your company made a very bold claim at a trade show, and then had that claim resoundingly refuted in front of the entire audience. Both you and the other defenders rushing to comment on the post are diving down into an argument about features and benefits, and ignoring the main point of the post.
In my opinion, the entire situation is worth a good laugh. I have a right to post my own opinion. As I predicted in the post, you guys are not laughing about this. If I was in your position, I would not be laughing either. "It could happen to any technology company", including Citrix. I do not think I would be bringing even more attention to the situation by extending a conversation about it, but everyone deals with these things in their own way.
It is no surprise you and "Art" believe you have a better product. If you want to share that opinion with the world and rattle off features and benefits, I suggest your company web site would be a more suitable place.
The market already provides both your company and Citrix a challenge. The market will determine which company has a better product, and neither your opinion, my opinion, or anyone else's will do much to change what the market decides. I expect Citrix will focus on doing everything we can to win that challenge.
I take time to laugh every day. As someone once said "laughter is the best medicine".
Thanks,
Barry Flanagan
May 03, 2008
Rick Mack says:
Sorry guys, it's late here. For UPD read USB.Sorry guys, it's late here. For UPD read USB.
May 03, 2008
Rick Mack says:
Hi Jason, We've all got a different point of view or bias and I respect and def...Hi Jason,
We've all got a different point of view or bias and I respect and defend your opinion, even it I might not agree.
If I could take my Kendo analogy one step further, Provision has something that Citrix appears to have lost, and that's agility and focus.
We can take a new idea and make it into something real in an incredibly short time AND deliver it to our customers. We're small enough that every customer still matters. Our enterprise product costs $99 per concurrent user and it has a true UPD, Profile management, USB redirection, terminal services AND VDI support etc via the same connection broker.
We don't have one product for VDI and a different ome for terminal services. We're not constrained by the marketting department because they don't know how to market a new concept. We can fire a new idea to the CTO and something will happen. That's actually pretty exciting, being able to grow and mold and influence a product.
How long have Citrix owned Ardence? Ever looked at the scalability of Provisioning server? Or had a hard look at what else is out there, maybe something like emBoot that uses iSCSI instead of a proprietary UDP product? Imagine a single boot image technology based on iSCSI so it doesn't need any additional infrastructure. Provisioning server is a brilliant product, but not necessarily for VDI.
As far as the old RDP vs ICA story goes, that's changing too. We've been beta testing a modified RDP client with full multi-media redirection and I suspect we might now cover more codecs than Citrix. We're releasing local text echo this month. Flash and IE image redirection are next. How about RDP ping and proper bi-directional audio.
I used to think RDP was pretty ordinary but we're actually not that far away from having an enhancd RDP client that is a serious competitor to ICA, maybe even better.
And you're forgetting something. We're the Provision Networks Division of Quest Software, in the same fold with Vizioncore, Scriptlogic, Vintela etc. If you look at Quest as a whole, we've actually got a lot more cool stuff than Citrix. And there's collaborative stuff starting to happen that'll knock your socks off. Admittedly Quest only made $631 million last year but that's not peanuts.
Too small to matter? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.
regards,
Rick
May 03, 2008
Rick Mack says:
Hi Barry, Sorry, this asynchronous message interchange is totally stopping me f...Hi Barry,
Sorry, this asynchronous message interchange is totally stopping me from saying what I mean to say. I'll keep it short and then shut up.
I agree with you. I have a laugh every day as well, and it's often at my own expense. After all if we didn't laugh sometimes we'd end up crying.
Provision actually do plug into Hyper-V and they did it by reverse engineering the interface. When I joined Provision, I found we had an internal site that has stuff like VMs from Xen, Hyper-V, WMware, Virtual Iron and Virtuozzo all working from the one management console, with full support for Softgrid and everything. That was awesome. Terminal services, VDI, DDI, published apps and session sharing on VMs, all tied together. Nirvana.
Regardless of what the official word is from Microsoft, we do Hyper-V as well. Citrix aren't the only player in that game.
But I'm not here to bag Citrix, just to set the record straight. I have too much affection for the very talented and fantastic people working at Citrix. You guys are worthy competitors.
Incidentally, I don't know Art and from email circulating internally, I can assure you he isn't anyone employed by Quest. But we like what he's got to say
regards,
Rick
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Boys, boys, boys, Calm down!!! Barry - sorry in advance - no featu...Boys, boys, boys,
Calm down!!!
Barry - sorry in advance - no feature comparisons below - just real commentary - ok?!
Yes, Citrix was mentioned in the 2nd day keynote, but still with no product shipping and no direct integration with either Hyper-V or SCVMM for provisioning, power management etc. My only guess is it's part of the thank you Microsoft is giving Citrix for the wasteful stopgap investment they've recently made - aka $500m for XenSource to try to put a dent in VMware while MS is readying Hyper-V. So Provision has every right to say and they are correct to say "the only VDI solution for Hyper-V" Citrix has NO VDI product on the market (if you had one, then their claim would have been incorrect) and when XenDesktop comes out in a couple of weeks, it will NOT be integrated with VMM the way we think of "real integration" - or like it integrates with Virtual Center. I really wonder how Citrix and MS will be at odds and how they'll act once Hyper-V and VMM are out. Forget the "kiss- **" public showcase - I think it will be "step out of the way Citrix, I'm not letting you manage something so strategic - go back to terminal services *****."
EDIT - Please refrain from profanity.
Now, for keynotes and such...
- Quest was mentioned in the 1st day keynote given by Bob Muglia (I didn't hear Citrix mentioned) http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/events/mgmtsummit/default.mspx
- Quest was mentioned in the Microsoft press release for the event on April 29 (I didn't see Citrix mentioned) http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/apr08/04-29MMS08PR.mspx
- Microsoft inteviewed Quest executives at the show about the extensions Quest is delivering for SCCM, SCOM and SCVMM (I couldn't find any interviews with Citrix) http://edge.technet.com/Media/Quest-Software-and-System-Center-Operations-Manager-2007-Cross-Platform-Extensions/
So at the end of the day, a couple of laughs here and there turn a dull day into a fun day.
I got to think that Provision is loving the attention Citrix is giving them - at least they have a product to sell and great t-shirts to give at MMS. I got two. There were more "green men" at the show, then there were people lined up to see the blue man show -- and that's a lot!
May 03, 2008
Art Johansen says:
LMAO now!!!! Are you referring to the real "blue man show" in V...LMAO now!!!!
Are you referring to the real "blue man show" in Vegas or the blue man show at the empty Citrix booth?
May 03, 2008
Barry Flanagan says:
Apparently my post has the provision networks guys whipped up into a frenzy. I w...Apparently my post has the provision networks guys whipped up into a frenzy. I would appreciate it if you would keep the profanity on your own site and off of ours however.
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
Isn't it funny Barry that any post anywhere that involves Provision Networks (in...Isn't it funny Barry that any post anywhere that involves Provision Networks (including those on Brian Madden's site) get the most comments? It seems that Citrix gets in a frenzy when a real threat to the orange juice monopoly (or is that koolaid?) gets any attention whatsoever.
May 04, 2008
Barry Flanagan says:
<snark>Yes, it is a conspiracy. We are all out to get you. Every other sof...<snark>Yes, it is a conspiracy. We are all out to get you. Every other software company in the world has a top secret team whose only mission in life is to spoil the party for provision networks. And you uncovered it! Thank you, Fox Mulder!
How is Sully these days?
</snark>
Seriously, this comment inspires visions of tin foil hats.
May 03, 2008
Anonymous says:
If I'm Fox Mulder, you look like Inspector Clouseau No spoils - just cake - th...If I'm Fox Mulder, you look like Inspector Clouseau
No spoils - just cake - thanks for giving our friends at Provision more attention!
May 04, 2008
Anonymous says:
By the way, Ericom also has a VDI product that supports Hyper-V.By the way, Ericom also has a VDI product that supports Hyper-V.
May 04, 2008
Anonymous says:
There will be several VDI solutions for Hyper-V once it's released.There will be several VDI solutions for Hyper-V once it's released.
May 04, 2008
Anonymous says:
Yes, Ericom Hyper-V support has been available since March. I guess t...Yes, Ericom Hyper-V support has been available since March. I guess that makes us first!
May 02, 2009
Anonymous says:
... one year later, something strange happend at MMS 2009 - MS shows Quest ...... one year later, something strange happend at MMS 2009 - MS shows Quest some affection publicly. Where was Citrix?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Quest-Desktop-Virtualization-bw-15038077.html?.v=1\\
www.vworkspace.com/awinningpartnership
http://www.brianmadden.com/blogs/brianmadden/archive/2009/04/29/move-over-citrix-microsoft-and-quest-launch-new-vdi-partnership-site.aspx\\
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